HRV vs VO2 max: The Truth About the Most Misunderstood Metric

There’s a simple recipe to turn frustration into new skills on and off the bike.

Introduction

There’s an amount and a type and an intensity  of training that you are individually going to   respond the best to. If you go above it, not so  great things are going to happen. If you go below  it, you’re you’re not going to get the output you  want. And that amount is not easy to find and it  changes on a weekly basis. It’s not the same week  in week out. If you can get that right week in  and week out, you will see continual improvements  and that work will turn into result. If you don’t  answer that correctly, bad things happen. And  that’s why HRV may just be the most important  metric you check every single day. I know, I  know. I’ve also said this. Nothing nothing is more  predictive of how long you will live than your VO2  max. So now you’re wondering, well, which is it,  HRV or VO2 max? Don’t worry, it’s all going to  make sense. But right now I think the burning  question is what do we need to understand about  HRV or heart rate variability to make this or this  more useful? And if you don’t have either that’s  okay as you’ll see all I know from Garmin is that  being in the red is bad being in the orange is  less bad and being in the green is good. But  like what do we do with that? Because HRV is the  metric of recovery, but most of us are getting our  HRV wrong and relying on inaccurate data. But when  you get it right, it will change the way you train  and manage your life. Because it turns out HRV  not only tells you how you’re handling the stress  of your rides and your workouts, it reflects all  the other stress in your life, too. done right,  HRV can act like a traffic light, signalling when  you’re ready to roll or maybe when you should dial  it back. And even better, if you use heart rate  zones to train, HRV is going to rock your world.  And I’ll show you the device that I’m using  now for HRV and how to get a reliable reading  every morning and then translate your HRV into  a recovery or readiness score. It is the coolest  discovery I’ve made all year and it’s going to  eliminate the guesswork of training this winter.  But before we get there, it’s probably a good  idea to understand what HRV really is because it’s  

What is HRV (really)

pretty clear people find it confusing. So based on  my research, I just tell them it’s just the RMSSD,  the root mean square of successive differences in  milliseconds of the R-R beats. You write all your   time gaps. Then you calculate the differences  between each time gap and the last. and then  square these differences. So none are negative.  Calculate the average of those differences and   then take the square root of that. Simple, but  really HRV is just measures the time between  heartbeats in milliseconds. But your heart doesn’t  beat to a metronome. The timing between the beats  varies slightly, putting the variability in heart  rate variability. And ultimately what that tells  us is how much energy your body has been spending  on recovery. Because of this, it gives us a window  into the physiological cost of all the stress your  body has been under recently. Over the long run,  the baseline HRV number is a powerful gauge  of your body’s resilience against stress, both  physical and mental, according to Joel Jameson.  Joel Jameson is a world-renowned coach to UFC  champions and pro athletes. His success is due in  large part to his introduction to HRV decades ago  back when Russian coaches were slapping six leads  on athletes chest and then hooking them up to a  big machine to track their HRV. And by the way, he  has a great backstory on his introduction to HRV  testing that’s going to go out in my weekly email  soon. So, if you’re not getting that, you can sign  up here. Here’s how Joel explains HRV. Really,  what I try to get people understand is we’re  measuring how the body is reacting to the world  around it. And that means everything you’re doing,   how well you’re sleeping, how much mental stress  you’re under, how well you’re recovering from your  workouts, what your diet’s doing to you, just all  it’s a summation of everything because it’s not   selective. It’s not just responding to one thing.  that you’re responding to. All of those things are  going to influence your parasympathetic state.  Both. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. Your parasympathetic  

HRV and the autonomic nervous system

state. So imagine if you had to tell yourself,  take a breath, exhale, beat the heart, stomach,  keep digesting, breathe. It’s absurd. Like we  never do anything else in life. So say a giant  thank you to your autonomic nervous system that’s  running all those things behind the scenes that  keep us alive and performing and that you know  we just take for granted during your ride. It’s  the sympathetic fight-or-flight branch of your  nervous system that regulates your heart rate and  gets oxygen to your muscles among other things.  The same goes if you’re working and really using  your brain or you’re in a stressful situation. But  when you’re done your ride or your workout, you  want the parasympathetic rest and recover system  to put the brakes on and bring everything back  to homeostasis so that you can begin to recover  because that’s when you get stronger. But how does  that happen? Well, the prime mechanism for that is  your breathing. And if you look at your heart rate  on your Garmin or your Apple Watch and you take a  you take a deep breath and you look at your watch  expecting your heart rate to go lower, you’ll find  it actually goes up. That’s because every inhale  suppresses the vagus nerve, the main highway  of the parasympathetic nervous system that runs  from your brain stem down to your heart, lungs,  and gut. But when you exhale, what happens? Now  your heart rate starts to fall. It’s this waxing  and waning of veagal tone and its impact on heart  rate that forms the foundation of a proper HRV  test. And to put a bow on this, if you wake up  in the morning and your HRV is low, it may mean  we’re still kind of going through that process  of coming down from a stressor or we’re under  something right now acutely that’s stressful,   right? Our sympathetic system turned on because  our body is still in that heightened state. If  we see a much higher parasympathetic tone, it  says, “Oh, our body’s really shifted heavily   towards the other direction, more towards rest and  digest and recovery and regeneration, adaptation,  it’s more anabolic, all that sort of stuff.” And  then we see as you kind of come back, you’re going   to go right back to where you started. And just  before we get to the most accurate way to test  your HRV and importantly, how you can actually use  it, it’s really important to understand three key  

What’s limiting your HRV: 3 Things

things. Starting with the fact that HRV is highly  individual, meaning you should compare yourself to  you, not someone else or some metric or standard  out there. While it’s true that poor sleep and  a bad diet can lower HRV, it’s also true that  genetics play a big role in your HRV range. Check  this out. You know, I’ve got patients who live at  100 and a good day for them, a good day for them,  quote unquote, they’re at 120 and a bad day for  them, they’re at, you know, 85. But, you know,  if you follow them for 5 years, their average HRV  is going to be 100 milliseconds. I’ve got other  patients whose average HRV is 15 milliseconds, and  a good day for them is 25 to 30, and a bad day for  them is 10. Um, How could that be explained by  something other than genes? That’s crazy, right?  So, let’s continue. They say genetics is somewhere  between like 15 and 70s something% of HRV. There’s  just such a wide range in the research of what  you see. You know, where that exact number falls,   I’m not sure, but you definitely see a very strong  genetic component to it. Why? I don’t think we  truly understand that. But as you mentioned, I  see people who don’t work out at all and they   come into the gym or they, you know, whatever  and you look at their numbers and you’re like,  you have a very high HRV that you would not expect  because you clearly don’t have very high level of   cardiovascular fitness. But I’ll say kind of  as a whole, if you start talking those people,  they tend to have a healthier family history.  They tend to have better health markers. I think   there’s something to that and that that higher  H probably still correlates to a health benefit  even if it doesn’t necessarily come from exercise  derived means. It’s just a genetic thing that they  have that probably conversion benefit. And while  lifestyle and training can still shift baseline   HRV modestly within your genetic range, Dr. Marco  Altini, one of the leading HRV researchers and  coach to elite runners, puts it succinctly. I’d  like to save you time and money. I most likely  cannot increase your HRV, and that’s fine. Because  it’s not just genetics, it’s also age. And here’s  Dr. Attia again, a 50 year-old’s HRV is less than  half of a 15year-old’s. Um, and it just keeps  getting further and further crushed as we go down.  I suppose that speaks to what you said earlier,   right, which is one of the hallmarks of aging  is this sort of lack of resilience. And we see  it on every level. But this is just uh a very  notable example which is even at the level of  the autonomic nervous system, we lose the ability  to recover from insult. And life is an insult.  Everything in life is an insult. The world around  us is just insulting us all the time. It’s just we   can respond much better to it as we’re younger.  And here’s why that is. Age reduces your margin  of error is what it comes down to. I mean, I’m  44 and you know, like you can do a lot of things   wrong in your 20s and maybe in 30s and you can  still get a lot of benefit out of it because you  just can you’re so resilient. Your your metabolism  will adapt. But like you said, the older you get,   the the less you can do that. And so you you  have to be much more acutely aware of what  your body can and can’t do. And that’s part of  what HIV can help you understand. I mean, you’re   just losing again this adaptability, this this  ability to turn those two dials as necessary to  meet whatever demand you’re placing in the body.  We can’t turn that sympathetic dial up as much. We  don’t have that spontaneous energy that you just  described to get up and sprint because that that   dial was way slower and it probably can’t go up as  high. Yeah. So, it’s like we’re born with a 0 to  10 rheostat or dial on both of them. And as you  age, that 10 goes to a 9, 8, 7, 6, 5. And yeah,  you can still move them, but you just can’t move  them as much. 100%. I would call like autonomic   range. And and that really kind of represents  what is our body capable of from an energetic  standpoint. How quickly can we turn that dial up?  And then conversely, how quickly can we turn that   dial back down and crank up that parasympathetic  side to restore homeostasis and get our bodies  back to normal. And then there’s the impact of  everything else. And and to your point, I think  people vastly underestimate, in my experience, the  impact of their life on their fitness. They really  do. They just don’t realize how much a poor night  of sleep or two nights of poor sleep or few nights  few much too much drink one night or just a poor  diet or they really underestimate mental stress.  Mental stress is a much bigger deal I would say  than people realize. So when you look at your   HRV just remember that it’s impacted by way more  than your workout. And then try to control the  controllables, like try to get better sleep, to  eat better, cut out alcohol, and take a freaking  machete to stress, like I did that. And if you’re  struggling with those things, at the end of the  day, it’s also helpful to remember that resting  heart rate is a better indicator of your fitness,  whereas HRV is an of the- moment indicator of how  well you’re handling your current training and  the rest of your life. So, don’t fixate on one low  HRV test. According to Dr. Altini, you should aim  for stability as opposed to increasing its value.  The goal, in my opinion, should not be to increase  HRV, but to use HRV to improve outcomes that do  matter, eg our health and performance, if that’s  something that we care about, which is the perfect  setup for how to use HRV for performance. Starting  

How to get accurate data: Device

with accurate data. A metric is only useful  if it’s accurate. And in this case, accuracy  depends on two things. the right device and the  proper method. And nothing beats this. According  to studies, our wearables with their optical  sensors, Garmin, Apple, Whoop, Aura, aren’t as  accurate as this, for a couple of reasons. Here’s  Joel Jameson to explain the difference. you know,  90 plus percent of the research has been done  with either the EKG or with chest straps because  that’s really been the gold standard of how it’s  measured. The use of these PPG or optical sensors   really has only been the last, you know, five, six  years. They they’ve been around and traditionally  their accuracy was just questionable when it came  to it. And they don’t get the same electrical  signal. They’re measuring changes in blood volume  through the skin. Basically, the electrodes shine   electric or shine the LED light down into the  skin and it reflects differently based on the  blood flow flowing through the the arteries  below it. And so you’re getting the pulse and   they actually call it pulse rate variable. It’s  not really heart rate variability. If we want  to get technical, it’s pulse rate variability.  To get a good resolution, you need good blood   flow below the surface and you need the lack of  movement. The biggest problem with PPG sensors,  optical sensors as a whole, is they get what are  called motion artifacts and any kind of movement   starts introducing noise into the signal because  again we’re not getting electrical signal. We’re  just getting this blood flow going beneath the  surface that we’re using the LEDs to detect,   right, for heart rate. When you start moving  around, you get lots and lots of motion artifacts  and it just becomes much more difficult for those  sensors to detect it accurately. particularly in   like a-cyclical movements, anything where your arm  is moving around at random, higher heart rates,  um darker skin colors, lots of things throw off  PPG sensors. Tattoos also affect it. By the way,  you guys know I love my Garmin data. I also  want to trust it. And Dr. Marco Alini agrees,  highlighting a study that concluded that wearables  vary in accuracy in both your overnight heart  rate and HRV compared to the gold standard,  a single lead ECG chest strap. But then there  are variations in the generations of the same  device and then firmware and software updates,  proprietary algorithms that change over times.  Like should your HRV change when you move from  Whoop to Garmin or Garmin to Aura? I don’t think  so. Altini writes, “Not all HRV measurements are  created equal.” And recent research highlights the  pitfalls on relying on hardware or algorithms not  specifically optimized for the job. The prime  example of this issue is certainly the Apple  Watch. Oh dear. But the situation seems rather  similar for Fitbit, Garmin, Whoop, and others. HRV  often ends up being an afterthought, not the core  functionality of the device. He goes on to explain  why, but really it’s moot when we understand  that there’s a better way to measure HRV than the  

We’re doing it wrong: how you should take your HRV

overnight method that our wearables use. Altini  says you can avoid the issues from Apple, Garmin,  Whoop, etc. And get accurate, actionable data by  taking your HRV in a single morning measurement  when you wake up. Joel Jameson agrees and explains  why it’s so influenced by what you did in a few  hours leading up to your sleep. So if you worked  out at night, you had a glass of wine, the first   few hours of your sleep are just reacting to that.  It doesn’t mean at the end of the night that it’s  where you’re going to be is not influenced by that  versus everything else, right? Um the second thing   is sleep quality is probably over reflected in  your HRV compared to what your body actually ended  up at. Think of it like this. And the analogy  is if I was going to weigh myself, I’d want to   weigh myself first time in the first thing in  the morning in standard conditions. I wouldn’t  want to have a meal and then go weigh myself. I’d  want to have very standard ways of measuring so   I can see the changes because ultimately it’s  you changing against yourself that’s the most  informative. So we wake up, we measure HIV, we  see where you are and we see where you were,   what your averages have been, what your variations  have been, and that tells us where you are today.  And that helps us make a decision about what  are you ready to do right now or what’s the most   appropriate for you to do right now. This is the  impact of merely swallowing during your morning  HRV test. It raises your heart rate. Drinking some  water impacts HRV for up to an hour afterward. So  now imagine what a plate of pasta and a couple of  glasses of wine. Not to mention all the artifacts  from moving around in bed with an optical sensor  out here does to your HRV data over a course of a  night. So taking two and a half minutes in the  morning says, “Okay, you’ve rested. Now let’s  see how you’ve recovered from your ride and that  stressful moment yesterday and everything else.”  Like it makes sense, right? So here’s how I get  my HRV. Now, when I wake up, I put this heart rate  

How I get my HRV now

chest strap on. But this isn’t my sweaty Garmin  strap. It’s the Morpheus chest strap developed by  Joel Jameson. I go to the bathroom, dampen the  strap, and then get back into bed. Now, I open  my Garmin app and refresh my sleep data because  it’s going to flow into the Morpheus app. Then,  in the Morpheus app, I answer a few subjective  survey questions about the quality of my sleep  and how I feel. And when I’ve settled again, I hit  the start button and in two and a half minutes,  I have my real HRV along with a recovery score.  And here’s why that’s important. Let’s say you  

Introducing: The Recovery Score

do a really hard ride. As you might expect,  the next morning your HRV might drop. Here’s  how Morpheus explains that in their app. Over  the next two days, your body cranks up recovery  by shifting more energy to rebuild and remodel  all the stressed tissues, restock energy stores,  etc. During this time, you’ll typically see a big  rise in HRV, often well above where you started.  Exactly how high it goes depends on a variety of  factors like how stressful the workout really was,  how fit you are, how much you help your body  out by getting enough sleep, eating well,  managing stress, etc. But you might interpret that  spike in HRV for a green light, but then you’ll  notice that your recovery score is down. You don’t  want to mistake a high HRV rebound for readiness.  It’s your parasympathetic nervous system saying,  “I’m still repairing. Don’t add more stress yet.”  It’s the recovery score in Morpheus that helps  you go from a metric that’s often confusing to  something actually useful. And and to be clear,  I am not sponsored or affiliated with Morpheus  in any way. I paid for this out of my own pocket  because I think it’s so cool. And I’m just getting  

How to use HRV to train

to the best bit. how to use HRV to improve your  training. And this is the bit that kind of blew  my mind. And I think maybe the perfect place to  start is here. I I think what it comes down to is  each person has a certain amount of training in a  week they’re I like I think it’s a weekly basis,   right? Because that’s kind of the cycle we live  in. There’s an amount and a type and an intensity  of training that you are individually going to  respond the best to. And if you go above it,  not so great things are going to happen. if you  go below it, you’re you’re not going to get the   output you want. And that amount is not easy to  find and it changes on a weekly basis. It’s not  the same week in week out. And so the more that  you can hone in on that core, how much volume do   I need and how much intensity do I need? If you  can get that right week in and week out, you will  see continual improvements and that work will turn  into result. If you don’t answer that correctly,  bad things happen. you either waste your time  because you’re not getting as much out of it as   you could or you do end up overtrained in which  case we see injuries and we see burnout and lots  of things that are going to have negative health  consequences and that’s where I think data can   play a really powerful role is it’s information  that you can use to make much more granular  decisions around rather than just guessing oh  I should go do 40 minutes today should you or I  should do 200 minutes this week is there anything  to support that other than just throwing stuff   at the wall and seeing what sticks and I think  that’s what intrigued me so much about HRV is it  felt like I could open the black box and get some  real answers other than like test, train for eight  weeks, re-measure, see what happened. I don’t  want to wait 8 weeks. I don’t want to potentially   lose the gains they could have made across that  time period. So for someone like yourself that’s  again wanting to get as much out of their time as  they possibly can. Yeah, data can play a really   strong role in that because it’s going to answer  questions that can’t be answered otherwise. But  how does accurate HRV data put you on the right  course? Well, to answer that, let me ask you this.  

Mind blown: HRV and your zones

Have you ever set out to do a zone two endurance  ride and for whatever reason like you just can’t  stay in zone two? You just keep popping into zone  three. Conversely, you may hop on your trainer  for a hit ride, maybe sprints or Norwegian 4x4s,  but this week you can’t drag your heart rate into  the VO2 max zone. For that matter, if you’re like  me, you may even wonder, are my zones even right?  Well, guess what? That’s because our zones are not  static. They are dynamic. Because I think for many  people, there’s still a little bit of ambiguity  on not the concept of what zone 2 feels like,   but the day-to-day variation, which again is  really significant. And that speaks to the body’s  dynamic. You know, I think we we can do a zone  2 test and look at lactate and all these things.   If we just take one test, we don’t realize how  much the body changes on a daily basis. And so,  if you’re just, okay, I took my lactate test 6  months ago. I’m just using this static zone 2.   You’re missing that dynamic change that the  body is going through on a daily basis. The  body is not static. I measure blood pressure. I  measure testosterone. I measure like all these   numbers change constantly. Like the body doesn’t  sit still. Why am I just learning this now? Like  am I the only one not to know this? Tell me in  the comments. But back to those dynamic zones.  The Morpheus algorithm then takes your HRV  and recovery and sleep data from Garmin or  Apple and then turns them into your daily training  zones. Three of them. Recovery, conditioning, and  overload. How you wish to train is up to you. But  if you’re about to do a HIT ride, it tells you,  okay, today overload, your red zone begins at a  heart rate of 160. Yesterday it might have been  164. Conversely, if I want to do a zone two ride  today, I know that I have to keep it under 143  beats per minute, the top end of the blue zone.  So now you may be wondering, yeah, but like how do  

Is Morpheus accurate: the Peter Attia test

you know the Morpheus algorithm is correct? This  is what sealed the deal for me. And I have to tell  you, Joel, I I cannot put in words how impressed I  am with that system and how remarkably accurate it  is at predicting something that is very difficult  to predict. Um, so kudos to you for doing that.  Um, what I find amazing are the days when, and I  had one of these days a week ago. Morphia said I  should have been at 140 or 139 for zone 2. I got  on the bike and I did not feel great and I sort of  said I think Morpheus got it wrong. I’m going to  ride to this wattage and my heart rate was about  132. And I checked my lactate and it was 1.1 mill.  It’s so damn accurate in what it predicts. It’s  like a shaman. Um and he also has no financial  interest in Morpheus. And he went deep on this.  He’s kept a spreadsheet of heart rate, perceived  exertion, and power along with what Morpheus set  for his zones. But because he does a finger prick  lactate test on the bike, he was able to confirm  that the daily Morpheus zones check out. Like that  is good enough for me. Now, recall that Joel said  that there’s an optimal amount of training in  a week for you, and it changes every week. And  each week, the app tells you what that is, the  number of minutes in each of the three zones for  a given week, and where you’re at each day. So,  your mind’s probably buzzing with questions like,  

Do I still use Garmin for my rides?

“Do I still use Garmin for my workouts?” 100% I  do. And as I sync them with Morpheus, it adjusts  my recovery up or down depending on whether it  aided in my recovery or depleted it more. You can  even use the Morpheus app itself to train indoors,  and I still capture it on my Garmin watch, but  the Morpheus app has workouts targeting each of  the three effort levels: recovery, conditioning,  and overload. And you can configure the intervals  and rest periods. And when it counts down to your  interval, you’ll see if you’re in your daily  target zone or not. It’s really cool. I should  add that uh Dr. Marco Altini also has a dedicated  HRV app and it’s called HRV for training. I  haven’t used that one, but where it really shines  is in the depth of the data it provides for your   morning test. So, if you’re a data geek and you  don’t really care about the daily training zones  and the recovery score, this might be for you. It  will estimate things like lactate threshold and  VO2 max. And that brings us right back to where we  started. What’s more important, VO2 max or HRV? As  

What’s more important: HRV or VO2max?

Joel says, he’d rather have a person with a high  VO2 max than someone with a high HRV that doesn’t  even work out. Because, as Peter Attia often  says, it’s not the high VO2 max number that’s  correlated with health span. It’s all the work it  took to get it. And you can’t have a high VO2 max  without earning it. So in terms of longevity and  health span, nothing is more important than that.  But here’s why HRV is so important. One of the  things I can tell you without question is VO2 max  aerobic fitness correlates to HRV better than any  other single marker. Oh, that’s interesting. Now,  there’s a big genetic component to HRV just like  there is in VO2 max. But if you some someone says,   “How do I increase my HRV that that  baseline number?” Without question,  you improve your aerobic fitness. It’s somehow  tied to mitochondrial function. It’s tied to   centers in the brain that are colocated with  different right regulation centers of of all  this. People with higher VO2 maxes are going  to have higher HRV 90 plus% of the time. That’s  just the single biggest thing you can look  at and predict what someone’s HRV is. Well,   what’s their VO2? What’s their aerobic function?  They’re going to have higher HRV if those are  better. Interesting. And here’s the advantage  of HRV because we can measure on a daily basis.   I think that’s probably the advantage I would say  it has is you’re not getting a VO2 max test every  day obviously or every week or every month. You  know, you’re not doing lactate testing. You’re not   doing these markers that are more output based  that are really important frequently enough to  get feedback of whether or not you’re going the  right direction. So, I think we can look at HRV in   a more granular daily basis just kind of say, am  I going the right direction? And that’s probably  more of a utility than a great predictor of, you  know, something. and we can look at those daily   changes to help us make more informed decisions.  We can’t do that with VO2 max or with you know  more invasive tests. So it it’s a more uh you know  narrow data point but it gives us something we can  use more actionably than these longer term tests  I think are better actual measures of outcome. And   if we see our HIV trending down significantly that  is a warning sign we’re doing something wrong. Our  body is not adapting the way that it should be  and we need to make adjustments whether it’s to   training or or lifestyle. So I think it’s used  differently. So in essence, while VO2 max is the  most important outcome, HRV is the guide to get  you there. And importantly, we can also use HRV  

Using HRV to identify health issues

to shortcut problems in the extreme to identify  real problems. Jules says if your RMSSD like the  raw HRV number reported in Garmin is 10 or your  Morpheus HRV which they normalize as a score out  of 100 is in the 30s or 40s something may be wrong  and he’s seen it firsthand. This is a you know one  but I was at a guy there was name Meliff who  you probably aren’t familiar with but he was   a very well-known sports scientist. He wrote  a book called Super Train. I was at his house  with the original uh HIV system I was using and  I had all the metrics and his HRV was like five  and he just looked really bad, you know. I said  then he had a heart attack and I said, “Mel,  this looks really concerning.” He was, you know,  he kind of brushed it off and he died of a heart   attack uh you know, a few months later. And so,  you know, if you’re really seeing these super low  RMSSSD or Morpheus numbers, like it’s definitely  an indication that that autonomic nervous system   is not responding well to the world around  it. And if it’s really really low, you know,  there could be a legitimate medical concern  that’s driving that. So, if you’re, you know,   Morpheus 40s, 30s, and you’re just not getting  up, it’s probably worth looking into, and it’s  something to definitely be concerned about. The  bottom line is that HRV is an everyday indicator  

What to focus on

of how well your parasympathetic nervous system is  responding to your workouts and everything else in  your life. I said earlier we have to control  the controllables. And to do that, we need  to focus on recovery as much as our workouts. But  recovery isn’t just about doing less or shuffling  over to the couch. That can actually slow it  down. And if you haven’t checked it out yet,   I’ve got a whole recovery tool kit ready to go and  you can find that right here. I’ll see you soon.